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 Post subject: BIG JAY CLOSED
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:19 pm
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Location: N. VT & Central Wasatch
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Click on the Teletips link below to catch yourself up to speed if needed...
http://telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

or

http://www.troutrivernetwork.org/gmc/bi ... _news.html

My strong opinion is this - No one using the tram or saddle trail should be allowed access to Big Jay, period. Jay peak **cked up long ago by encouraging the trail cut by it's crew. Beyond this, jailbird chute should also be restricted TO ALL for restoration. All other areas on big jay should remain open to public access via skinning up the basin or hoofing it in. This will DRAMATICALLY reduce demand on Big Jay, but in the end... who's gonna enforce it. Jay Peak ski patrol at the meeting last night said they won't be the police.

Would love some input here... coyne86, bigjay, et. al.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:10 am 
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Location: Lyndonville, VT
i attempted to access it yesterday from first tram. encountered about 9 fences on the way out, playing limbo and pulling some 5.13b skin moves around a few of them. was on the last pitch before the top and ran into a jay patroller and a guy from the grn mtn club. they werent stoked that we got past all the gates and closed signs so we had a little discussion and we turned back and skinned through the 9 gates back to the resort.

as i see it access should be restricted in both early and late season, when user impact actually has an effect on the soils. as of right now there is at least 5 ft of base out there and i know a few of you out there know from your avi II classes that a skiers weight impact decreases severely the more snow you get between skier and user.

well that all im writng for now bc my ride for jay is here.peace.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:59 am
Posts: 549
Location: Stowe, VT
Seems to me at this time that it's good for Jay to close this down. I'm not aware of any other resorts in NE that have "gates", and clearly Big Jay is impacted by the people who have been making use of this. The trail cut and the ridiculousness from this summer aren't cool. It sucks that the more responsible BC users here (like all of us) are impacted, but I understand why they are doing this.

Coyne, In addition to the stupid trail hacking stuff, you have to admit that anytime we ride in the trees, we impact them. So it's not just soil that is a concern, it's also flora and fauna. I respect your disappointment, and I definitely don't think that sb.com members are "the problem" but I'd rather lose easy access to protect the area from those who are the problem.

Thanks,
Shep


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Location: N. VT & Central Wasatch
interesting... according to teletips reports from the 12/15 public meeting, jay patrol said they wouldn't be the police. wonder if pressure was turned up by resort execs w/o a choice.

who knows.

so were all those fences put in just in the past couple weeks w/ all the new snow??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:52 pm 
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Location: Jay Peak, VT
From the local "intel" i could get this w-e, thereare only 2-3 people in the GMC that don't want the place open... Everyone thinks the gate won't do it... But for me, it should be closed... To all who don't have a clue!To all those people who think that it is "oh so cool being out there" without being prepared at all... I know i'll be riding big jay this season just like every year... but then again there are so many nice spots out there... that i really don't minde skipping a season or two to allow re-growth...

I wasn't at the meeting... I was done for the day at 3:30... and a beer at my friend's house down in Jay seemed like a way better option!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 155
Location: bc
you know what would be awesome?

take one side of the mountain, maybe tramside quad and green mountain flyer, make that a kids and beginners/family mountain, put in a big park near the flyer, move the t-bar to serve the park

take away the jet, the tram, everything else, make the rest of the resort "maintained backcountry" with no grooming, semi-defined skin tracks, avy closure/"risk lowering", and have it be cheap to get into, just like a cross country ski area. drop the kids off at the lifts, then take the t-bar up to the top of the park to the skin-out area to the summit and towards where the jet was...

that would bring a sort of easygoing version of backcountry to the mainstream? maybe?

I have always experienced by far the best conditions on any resort way before it has even opened in late september and early november (for Jay it would still only be mid-Dec after the present opening day that it would get good)... nearing the opening day, the mountain will never have good conditions for the rest of the season with chairlifts

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:44 am 
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Location: socal
I haven't been back over that way in years, but how in the h*ll did they get away w/ cutting down that much before anyone noticed?

sheesh...it's a shame 2 ding bats had to make others loose out.
Part of there punishment should be replacing every tree they cut X2.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:09 pm 
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Location: Jay Peak, VT
See, that's what most people who haven't been out there don't know:

There's been some cutting every year for the past 8-10 years... Every skiers takes out a small tree under the snow everytime they ride Big Jay. Then, during summertime, locals go out and "trim" some trees... with a big saw... no powertools...

Then the two guys (who've been cutting "glades" all over the mountain already for free) go out on a limb and decide to cut "their biggest piece" yet and get caught... They would have never had a problem if they would have cut a new trail right on Jay property... but on a state forest with the tree huggers watching... They got caught...

Do they still ski at the mountain: Yes, every weekend. Do they get punch in the face by bitter locals: Hell no!

They just got caught for something that every backcounty enthousiast does in summertime... They used powertools and were completely out of line...

Don't think Big Jay was that skiable when i went in there for the 1st time more then 15 years ago! (it was my first mountain out in the backcountry with 3 other riders... I was 15 back then... Heck, i was ridding "the dip" for the first time with ski patrols when i was 8-9 y.o)

I guess the ban might be a good thing... Now, people will learn to prepare properly before venturing out to the backcountry! Maybe you won't get girls lost in the woods at 10AM and staying put without moving for more then 24 hours like last w-e!

my 2 cents...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:13 pm 
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Location: 82 J/11
BigJay wrote:
...something that every backcounty enthousiast does in summertime...


:shock:

I think you're painting with a really broad brush there buddy.


Quote:
They used powertools and were completely out of line...


Out of line because they used powertools?! -as opposed to what?

Leave only footprints,
-tk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Posts: 155
Location: bc
every backcountry enthusiast in the thin snowpack, tight trees and low elevation East at least :) (besides the Chics Chocs)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:53 am 
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Location: Stowe, VT
I've never done any "thinning", but pretty much just cause I haven't been around long enough to get involved in someones project, or find my own. I don't know if it's an accepted fact in New England, but it's certainly very common. I think the question of whether it's okay or not, for most people here, turns on how natural the terrain looks. By using powertools, you're pretty much guaranteeing that you are taking out more than the tiny saplings or removing deadfall, and therefore significantly altering the landscape and the forest ecology. When you're done with a run, it should be unnoticeable except to experienced backwoods hikers/skiers just like a 100 year-old road cut would be.

I think about it the same way I think about my rock climbing. The very act of being there is going to impact the environment, so we have to either be very responsible, and minimize our impact, or we'll get busted, as we should be. The guys on Big Jay got busted, as they should have been, for not respecting the ideal on minimum impact.

my 2 cents,
Shep


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:10 am 
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Location: Kalispell, Montana
Shep wrote:
it should be unnoticeable except to experienced backwoods hikers/skiers just like a 100 year-old road cut would be.


So its ok if only "they" notice it? I don't want to notice 100 year-old road cuts or more recent handy work.

Shep wrote:
I think about it the same way I think about my rock climbing.


The act of chipping holds maybe. You are creating or altering runs just as someone chipping holds is creating or altering routes. This behavior isn't considered acceptable in the climbing community and it shouldn't fly in ours either.

My $0.02.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:00 am 
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Location: Jay Peak, VT
TK wrote:
BigJay wrote:
...something that every backcounty enthousiast does in summertime...

:shock:
I think you're painting with a really broad brush there buddy.


Yeah, i meant on the east coast... It was indeed a broad picture here...

And as i mentionned somewhere else, i don't cut or trim woods during summertime, i'm too busy building sweet singletrack.

It's just that it's part of the "BC Culture" on the east coast... We don't have open bowls... Vegetation is pretty dense... And like i said before EVERY rider out in the wood has an impact on vegetation... Just stomping through the new growth while the snowpack is low helps keeping the woods "clear"... ANd then you fall and break a couple of branches... You duck under a branch and break a few here and there... It's not voluntary but you're "trimming" woods even during winter time!

Tons of open area on Jay Peak that weren't rideable 10-15 years ago... You think it happened by itself?


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