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 Post subject: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 303
Location: kelowna bc canada
Just to see what i could come up with an set the bar for other setupsImage
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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm
Posts: 4958
Location: California
yeah but..............































just kidding, congrats on your set up


ps. you should edit the title to read "the lightest hardboot setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr" :)


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Location: kelowna bc canada
No probs Bcrider, us fruitbooters can take a few shots at are preferred equipment :)


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (edit hardboot content)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:38 pm
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Location: powder central, bc, canuckistan
nice work vapor!! :thumpsup:
butttt......
phuk the 'hard boot content'!!!!
BCR, ya gots some liter softy setup??? throw it down buddy!!

oh yeh, taxes... :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:03 pm 
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Location: Colorado
I like where this thread is going. Markets driving down weight. Come on BC Rider, it's valid for all setups.

Looks like this setup needs to go on a 25% diet. I think it can be done, but Vapor, that's a really light setup.

My pair comes in at 1024g.


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (edit hardboot content)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Location: California
karkis wrote:
BCR, ya gots some liter softy setup??? throw it down buddy!!

oh yeh, taxes... :oops:


I never claimed to have a lighter softboot set up. If I were obsessed with having the lightest set-up possible I would learn to ski I guess. ;)

Luckily for me it hasn't come down to that.

I'm not trying to shoot down product evolution either, there should be more HB options for splitters in the market that's for sure. I'm just saying that for me personally this particular option doesn't come without sacrifice and is sorta moot for the riding I do. I ride in pretty small mountains and terrain for the most part. If I rode in more gnar terrain maybe my thoughts would be different.

For me, while I'm definitely weight conscience, I'm not willing to change or sacrifice the feel of a softboot setup that I've become accustomed to after a couple decades of snowboarding. I have no idea what the actual weight is of my set-up (again not obsessed) but I do know that it's the lightest it's ever been, which puts a smile on my face. Soon it will get even lighter with some 2012/13 Spark Blazes. Beyond that I can't see it getting too much lighter (unless the Edison system provides it) which I'm fine with. Right now having a better fitness level is more valuable to me than small weight savings.

I know yourself, Joey, and lots of other folks are having great success with HB setups and I'm stoked on that. I know with proper tweaking and mods the flex can be pretty similar to what I'm used to. For my use though the biggest hang-up I have with it all is the lack of a highback. I just dont want that support built into the boot...I want it independent of the boot. I want my boot to flex in all directions (except backwards) within the binding...and then bam....the highback is there when and where I want it. I came up with a saying a number of years back that I still believe in, "it all comes down to the descent". To me this means that while I want my cake and eat it too by having the lightest gear possible, the feel that I desire on the descent trumps all. This is for bindings, boots, and the board.

Sorry for the thread drift, please carry on! :thumbsup:

and thanks for the reminder about taxes..................argh.


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 303
Location: kelowna bc canada
No gear wars allowed!! :lol:
For me its not what your riding, its the knowledge/dedication the people i'm with that counts.
It a big leap of faith into hardboots for somebody and the reality is everybody starts in a softboot setup with angles, technique that have to be relearned.
My goal with this is to get rid of as many negatives that people use against hardboot setups while keeping the positive ones...not just light, so if anybody has any questions or if local and wants some help developing something similar i'm here to help.


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Location: Colorado
BCR, I was just kidding around. I'm really not that focused on weight, but for the spring time, it does start to add up for those longer days. It's also an easy metric to compare one setup to another, but you are right that in the end, what really matters is that the feel is right. I think hard boot setups have more to go to get that right, but it's fun to push the boundaries and it seems pretty close to me so far.

A lot of creative people out there and it's fun to see what they are coming up with. Not trying to start a gear war, Ok, well kinda. In the end, I'm just hoping for a really nice simple, lightweight, reliable system that feels like soft boots (ie, loads of fun!). If this means I buy it from someone, great or if it means I get to play around and design one up, that's cool too. I can say from playing around so far, it would be a lot cheaper if I could just buy it off the shelf. I think sometimes that we forget just how much blood, sweat, money and tears go into each of the great systems out there. Lots of respect for Will, the brothers and the others out there.

Great work Vapor! Really cool setup and keep up the innovation as it will push this area of the sport to new places.


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:07 am 
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Posts: 167
Location: Mt Shasta
Thats sweet.

I want to do something similar and get all the rise out of the bail system so I'm right down on the voile plate. Guess I better get a drillin on my spare plates. Did you swipe bails from another set of plates?


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Location: reno
put those on a triad baseplate and watch the weight drop off. Did you make those bails yourself?

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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 303
Location: kelowna bc canada
The bails are made from the material that came from the voile plate bails, just bent ,cut and threaded to the correct shape.
Here is a shot showing the cant on the rear binding and the shaft that runs through the plate replacing the stop(shortens the puck up on one side)
For those that are familiar with alpine setups i use to run catek bindings that had unlimited toe lift/heel lift and canting which is as important to me as boot height off the board.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 473
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Vapor I love your bindings :clap: I might have to scavenge the bails off my Bomber Sidewinders (or get a set from Finn) and try this setup!

So could one reverse (or create) a plate ( U - Shape) and have attached this binding the Spark R & D's Edison interface?

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 Post subject: Re: the lightest setup everrrrrrrrrrrrr (hardboot)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1522
Location: Colorado
Well done Vapor. If someone with a CNC mill takes on this project, we will get there. A better slider plate, with bulges at the ends, would allow the shoulder yokes to bolt directly into the plate with an M6 titanium bolt-this could allow for boot size adjustability (multiple threaded holes in the slider plate) and the elimination of your steel cross piece/bolt. With a little attention placed on the machining of the slider plate, it could also beat the Voile plate in strength and weight (ala Spark machined binding baseplates). I think using this idea in conjunction with some custom canted pucks from FirstLight could be the way to go.
A question: what thread did the Voile bails take (M5 perhaps?)

Chris (BCrider)-I am not trying to convince you to switch to HBs, but, please accept that the feel you (very precisely) describe can be achieved with a hardboot system through careful modification of the boots: solid highback support, with forward, medial, and lateral flexibility is totally possible, and the exact amount of flexibility in each direction can be dialed in by the rider through careful boot mods. Yes, off the shelf this is not available, but with work, any level of flexibility in each direction can be achieved. I just must point this out (again) because the notion that there is a compromise with riding performance when using hard boots is inaccurate.
I do not accept compromised riding performance with hard boots, and in fact, feel that hard boots can offer better (especially more consistent) flex than many (but perhaps not all) soft boot set ups. One big problem with lots of soft boots, especially the stiffer ones which I prefer, is that they often flex by creasing of the shell materials-this way of flexing offers an inconsistent flex pattern. Well engineered hard boots, on the other hand, can be designed to offer a very consistent, smooth, progressive flex.
I am interested in putting together a new soft boot set up for next season, as I would like to experience some of the new soft split bindings coming up for next year (not to replace my HB set up, just for learning and variety), and am right now researching soft boots, trying to find a stiff one, which still offers a smooth, progressive flex profile. Next up to try on is the Ride Insano...

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